Posts by Madame Quixote

34

Fight like a disfellowshipped person. (scrapping hard)

by Sparkplug in

jw
friends

lately i have been thinking.

there are things i want.

i am so tired of working so hard for goals just to watch the prize be taken by someone else who is only slightly interested in the finished product.

Madame Quixote

Good for you! Go for it, whatever it is! Work hard. Stay in touch. Be happy.

7

Your Dynamic Personalityhow do others see it?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

your dynamic personalityhow do others see it?

in life you encounter hundreds, thousands, and even tens of .

thousands of unique individuals and personalities.one thing.

Madame Quixote

I tend to be very, very shy and feel extremely awkward in group settings and I've been told that people assume I'm stuck-up because of it. It's probably the result of anxiety (avoidant personality disorder, I think. Yes, I DO blame my upbringing as a JW and family dysfunction).

Although, I do okay one-on-one; I can even be very argumentative and obnoxious when I feel safe or profoundly provoked. Oh Dear. Isn't that a shame?

I do try to be friendly, but I think it comes off as insincere. I don't feel that I make a very good impression on people, although there are some people who do actually seem to like me very much. A few even love me unconditionally, so I might as well not worry about what strangers think, huh?

I just try to pretty much behave myself most of the time, and no one seems too bothered by me.

36

WITNESSES REACTION TO FACING DEATH......

by Mary in

jw
friends

i went to see someone in my old hall last night, who's recently been diagnosed with cancer.

she's only in her late 40s, healthy, so this was a shock when i found out about it the other night.

apparently it's gone in to her liver and her doctor has not given her any hope of surviving it, although they're going for a second opinion, as the doctors in our area are notoriously incompetent.. even though i stopped going to the meeting 2 years ago, i thought going to see her was the human thing to do, since she studied with me when i was 15 years old and i thought it would maybe be comforting for her to talk to someone else who had had cancer.

Madame Quixote

Oops. Sorry about that double post; deleted.

I do not wish to imply that everyone makes themselves sick. That I definitely DO NOT buy. Just want to point out there are many factors in the mix, regarding health and wellness that include, but are not limited to weird thinking patterns/behaviours and that JWism seems to foster physical as well as mental illness among its members.)

And sorry to be so trite, but "Denial is more than a river in Egypt."

Denial is a permanent state of mind for Jehovah's Witnesses, especially when facing death and sickness.

Everything related above is typical of JWs, and of other people (or groups) stuck in deep denial.

To what someone above posted regarding the stages of grief/loss:

I agree about the stages, but not with your idea that she'll come around to acceptance. Acceptance is far less likely for her than continuing denial.

Pioneering is probably part of the bargaining (stage of loss/grieving), as someone suggested, and people usually do go back and forth in the stages, and there is overlap of behaviours/attitudes reflecting the progress through those stages.

Unless Mary's friend leaves the bOrg, it is almost certain that she will vacillate between denial, bargaining, and possibly anger, which will likely be projected onto others, including you, Mary, I'm sad to say, which essentially qualifies it as more denial.

This is such a sad state of affairs for people facing enormous fear and loss, who are yet unable and unwilling to truly acknowledge dying as a natural function, much less accept it.

Best wishes, Mary. I am glad to hear that you are doing well yourself and I hope that you continue to nurture yourself and to stay well.

36

WITNESSES REACTION TO FACING DEATH......

by Mary in

jw
friends

i went to see someone in my old hall last night, who's recently been diagnosed with cancer.

she's only in her late 40s, healthy, so this was a shock when i found out about it the other night.

apparently it's gone in to her liver and her doctor has not given her any hope of surviving it, although they're going for a second opinion, as the doctors in our area are notoriously incompetent.. even though i stopped going to the meeting 2 years ago, i thought going to see her was the human thing to do, since she studied with me when i was 15 years old and i thought it would maybe be comforting for her to talk to someone else who had had cancer.

Madame Quixote

Mary - I am sorry you have this to cope with. At least you're not in the kind of denial they are in. Hugs to you. And I am terribly sorry to hear your friend is in so much suffering amidst an atmosphere of complete denial. Denial is normal for a time, but when it never ends, people don't heal and can't really grieve and can't even be free to really comfort each other or themselves.

If she is still alive and in the hospital, maybe she would appreciate you remembering some of her favorite songs (other than Kingdom Melodies) and bring her a little of that to listen to (with the right media player).

Near the end of a friend's death with cancer a few years back, her daughter and husband brought a tape player and played her favorite music quietly beside her bed.

When she passed, she was surrounded by 13 of us who took turns holding, massaging, and stroking her while talking to her, even though she could not respond due to the morphine; and we took turns gently massaging her cold feet for many hours.

During the throes of death, her husband, despite his own terror, told her over and over,"Everything is going to be alright," just to comfort her in the fear and helplessness. I will always remember to offer that kind of comfort for anyone facing any such thing for as long as I live. It was not denial, but comforting words to and from someone in terror of great loss.

I have never witnessed anything like that among the JWs during such events, other than people coming and going and preaching to each other and to the sick person about Jehovah's this and Jehovah's that. It's sickening to see. [Edited to say sorry for the rambling about my personal experiences here; they are somewhat, vaguely relevant and in brackets, if you want to skip it; I guess I'm in bi-polar graphomanic mode these past few days.]

I read a very good book on the subject of facing terminal illness years ago by Elizabeth Kubler Ross. She posited that there are stages to grieving, including denial and anger. Many JWs, if not most, force themselves, at least publically, to skip the anger stage, and stay stuck in denial forever due to their belief in the Big R - Resurrection - and due to the fear of approbation from other members if they "grieve too much" - a sign of lacking faith, as someone said.

As you know, they also believe their deceased loved ones are just going to sleep for a short time, and they'll see'em right around the bend after the Big A - Armageddon. So happily enough, funerals turn into big, almost celebratory, sometimes tearful, family reunions. And the Watchtower Society gets to preach endlessly about hope for everlasting life and how committed to field service the deceased one was. Ain't that dandy?

I think I may not even attend any more JW funerals or hospital scenes (even for my own parents), because the last couple JW services (and hospital scenes) I attended were too disturbing (and angering) for me.

Warning: Personal Ramble. I did not mean to do so, but I feel the need to qualify some of the above, which is probably not applicable to your friend, Mary: [I should couch the statement (about not showing up for any more family health crisis/funerals) by pointing out that there are a number of hypochondriacs and psycho-somatics (both jw and non) in my family, whose illnesses have created quite a bit of drama that I just don't need. It's such a great way for them (the hypochondriacs and psychosomatics) to divert attention if they're overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance (or their genuine illness is triggered by something that recalls childhood trauma, or some such thing).

I finally realize that it can be an effective defense mechanism - that is totally unconscious - to avoid addressing any repressed issues, personal failures, abuse, and family problems (denial).

And it even gets the disfellowshipped daughter (me) to the hospital (over and over) for a "necessary business" visit. The other perk (for them) can be that being sick gets commendations and kudos from elders and other JWs when the sick stoically face their terrible traumas - (and some of them have been truly horrible, I admit) - even if their own untreated emotional and/or psychiatric problems, reinforced by "waiting on Jehovah" instead of getting help - are what created or contributed primarily to the drama/trauma in the first place.

Danny Haszard's experiences with his illness come to mind, for me. If you've not read his story, please do.

Now, I do not believe that my analysis applies to your friend with cancer; I just feel the need to qualify my reasoning in not wanting to visit my jw family when they are hospitalized/sick, even dying. I am not being callous; just realistic cuz I've been through it a few times and some of my immediate family's defense mechanisms involve chronic physical illnesses that might very likely be avoided if they got psychiatric help and took better care of themselves and of each other . Thanks to the Watchtower Society and their personal denial, they just don't.

Understand that I am not unsympathetic to their illnesses, including the mental ones; they usually do suffer from troubles that mimic heart attacks and suffer from IBS (which sent my mom to the hospital in very serious pain); and, (in my deceased grandmother's case), from diabetes and heart disease, and such, over the years.

Some members of my JW family seem to unconsciously create such drama by neglecting themselves and each other, which is the case with my other, still-living grandmother, in my opinion.

The consequences of bad health and lots of attention from the Society - (for facing it with hope (denial), and faith (more denial) and stoicism (intense denial) - reinforce silly ideas about "waiting on Jehovah" and the promise of everlasting life]. End of semi-relevant personal ramblings.

One of my non-JW aunts and I have made a pact with each other in the event of our own deaths: There will be NO JW service for us. And if I survive my other JW relatives, I'll very likely conduct my own private services (if I feel the need) and probably not go to any more JW services ever. I will attend viewings, cremations, and burials AFTER the JWs finish their blathering about hope for everlasting life, cuz they rarely if ever conduct true memorials of their members' lives.

They just use funerals and sickness as an excuse to preach about this "bad ole world" and how Satan tries them so, and how they have so much hope for living after they die, which sounds kind'a nice, except for the part before you die - where you get to live for years on end, waiting on Jehobo. Sorry you are going through this, Mary. Many have and many will. I think it is very good of you to go to your friend, even though she did not go to you in your time of need. She is sick in more than one way, I suppose. Do what you need to do for yourself and for her. Everyone copes in different ways. Hugs to you and to her.

33

Pray Or Give Your Thoughts To My Gradson

by Undecided in

jw
friends

i don't believe in prayer now, but i could be wrong so would you give some good vibes for my grandson?

he is 16 and they discovered a big growth on his lymph node near his heart and will operate on him monday afternoon.

it could be cancer but i sure hope it isn't.

Madame Quixote

Positive thoughts for you, your grandson, and the family. I see you're in NC. Is your grandson, too? Duke has such good medical facilities and doctors. Where ever he is right now, positive thoughts and healing are being directed. Hugs to you and him.

17

Happy Feet

by becca1 in

go see happy feet!

it's not just for kids.

it's really cute.

Madame Quixote

It really is a great movie for both kids and adults, but it did have some scary spots. You know, Steve Irwin is the voice of one of the Aussie-accented elephant seals? It's exactly the kind of movie you would imagine him wanting to participate in.

My daughter and a bunch of her friends went to see it as part of her 19th birthday party; one of her friends who knows she loves penguins gave her a beautiful, large Emperor penguin, which she brought into the theatre with her!

I thought Happy Feet was wonderful, especially the fabulous chase scenes.

I thought I would dislike it from the beginning because I tend to find musicals annoying, but this was absolutely gorgeous and precious in every respect, musically and visually.

I hope it helps people become more aware, concerned, and active regarding over-fishing, pollution, and population.

16

1st Christmas: Gift ideas for wife?

by Little Drummer Boy in

ooookay,.

first of all, exwitless, don't read this thread!.

shoo!.

Madame Quixote

Check out Toys In Babe Land. They have a wonderful selection of toys, appreciated by one and all (adults). There's truly something for everyone, tastefully gift-wrapped, if you wish, or simply discretely tucked beneathe her pillow or in her jammy drawer Christmas Eve: http://www.babeland.com/home

7

When Someone You Love Is An Abuser . . .

by Madame Quixote in

what strategies work to help them find alternatives?

i have little nephews whose lives could be improved, but i feel powerless, impotent (because of the shunning) to really help in any way.

i know that my sister and even my crazy parents want what's best for the kids, but they don't seem competent to figure out what's best and i doubt i could prove my opinion in court.

Madame Quixote

Who or what is responsible for putting a pop-up link/advertisement in the middle of my post? I saw something like this at a breast cancer post earlier today and thought the poster herself put it up. There was an ad for some alternative (probably crap) treatments, as if the woman who'd recovered from breast cancer had put it there herself! This is totally unacceptable to me, and I would like it to stop immediately, or I (and probably others) will stop posting on this forum. I WILL NOT be an advertising WHORE, regardless of the cause (even for my favorite ex-jw forum)! This is absolutely unacceptable. Is anyone else noticing this happening, or did I pick up some kind of virus?!!!

47

1:09am and the frickin' meeting tomorrow!

by 5thGeneration in

jw
friends

just want to chill out.

sleep in.

get up at 11 and make some spam 'n eggs.

Madame Quixote

5thGeneration. I'm so sorry. Are your parents making you go to the KH? How old are you? I don't think you should ever feel guilty about not wanting to allow others to waste your time and to manipulate you, which is what is happening. Do try to sleep in, enjoy your Sunday. Feign illness if you must, but just be yourself. Hugs.

28

Is marriage an outdated institution

by free2beme in

jw
friends

60% of all marriages fail.

there is no perfect formula that works for everyone, to keep a marriage together and strong.

with these in mind, you have to wonder sometimes, if marriage is even worth it.

Madame Quixote

As far as I know, co-habitation is illegal in my state. In fact, I think there was some law suit (locally) recently over a woman claiming her landlord or boss (or something like that) was discriminating against her family due to their lack of a marriage contract. In the US, co-habitation is illegal in many states. I'm quite sure it's illegal in NC, although rarely enforced; it's like trying to enforce laws about how to have intercourse; it's just not worth bothering with, unless you want to harass or discriminate against someone you dislike. Marriage is a good way for the government to tell itself that it's caring for children and families. Like bastardy bonds, it morally gets the gov off the hook for taking care of vulnerable citizens/dependents (whether parents really care for their kids or not).